Frankly Answered Questions - FAQs

Why do you feel the need to preach the law? (Part 2)

Q: Thank you for responding to my questions. You present a powerful case, and I have been doing a lot of thinking about this lately.

I'm still not convinced that tithing is compulsory. But I'm really intrigued by your position. In fact, I thought of a bunch of new questions that exceed the scope of tithing. I've never really understood what is and what is not binding from the Old Testament teachings.

A: This is a super difficult concept in some ways, yet absolutely essential to understand, I think. You can see that it's difficult for the early church too. That had to hold church councils concerning the subject (Acts 15), they debated each other (Acts 11:1-18) and rebuked one another (Galatians 2:11-14). What changes take place when God is no longer working with one nation, but with all nations? What stays? What remains "everlasting?"

But I think that there is a lot of guidance in the New Testament on these issues. Most people make a major mistake when they read passages about believers being no longer "under the law" or believers being "dead to the law." Unfortunately they assume this means the law is no longer valid or important and they become "antinomians" (against the law). It is true that believers are no longer slaves to the law (under the law). It is true that we died to the law. But the law didn't die, we did.

What is the continuing use of the law? If you haven't already, you might want to check out Free from the Law, but Not Against the Law. This is the best summary I've found on the continuing use of the law. (It's not mine. I got it from a program called Sonship.)

The law is good (Romans 7:12,16; 1 Timothy 1:8). It has no power to save. But it does have power to guide and help us know the mind of God.

I would highly recommend that you get a hold of one of these books. You'll get a lot out of them. They are written by evangelicals who are seminary professors and are very readable:

The Covenants of Promise by Thomas McComiskey
The Old Testament in the New by S. Lewis Johnson
Christ of the Covenants by Palmer Robertson

Q: For example, circumcision is called an everlasting covenant between God and Abraham and his offspring. Paul says that we, Christians, are heirs according to a promise. (The promise made to Abraham, right?) Part of that promise, or covenant, was circumcision. Yet good ol' Paul says that circumcision doesn't have "any value".

Circumcision --- OUT
Tithing --- IN
Sabbath --- OUT
Ten Commandments --- IN (Although the Sabbath stuff is in the 10 Commands)

A: Let me make my own list.

Circumcision --- CHANGED to baptism (Colossians 2:11-12)
Tithing --- CHANGED. The tithe is a standard for Christians to start with ("excel in this grace of giving" - 2 Corinthians 8:7)
Sabbath --- OUT (because of Colossians 2:16)
Nine Commandments --- IN (because each is repeated and affirmed in the New Testament)

Concerning circumcision, I think part of your difficulty here relates to the meaning of the Hebrew word for "everlasting" or "forever." The Hebrew word is olam and it doesn't necessarily mean forever and ever and ever. It's root meaning is "unto most distant times" or "unto hidden times." I don't want you to take my word for this. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (a standard reference book among evangelicals) says:

"That neither the Hebrew nor the Greek word in itself contains the idea of endlessness is shown both by the fact that they sometimes refer to events or conditions that occurred at a definite point in the past, and also by the fact that sometimes it is thought desirable to repeat the word, not merely saying "forever," but "forever and ever." Both the Greek and the Hebrew word came to be used to refer to a long age or period, not necessarily perpetuity."

There are other examples of olam not meaning perpetuity: Exodus 21:6; Isaiah 32:14-15; Numbers 25:13.

What this means is that God's command to Abraham to circumcise his children is a covenant that will exist "unto most distant times," i.e. times hidden from Abraham's sight. Abraham understood this meaning and that God's intent was for this command to be "for the generations to come" (Genesis 17:12), but not necessarily to the end of the world.

Q: This stuff eats at me. There doesn't seem to be much unity at all between Old and New Testaments. Isn't this why Jews to this day have trouble with Christianity? We Christians think the Mormons are heretics, but we did the same thing to the Jews! We added and subtracted a whole bunch of stuff from supposedly God-breathed material.

A: Yes, you're absolutely right: this is why Jews have trouble with Christianity. But "we" didn't do anything to the Jews. God did. If God spoke in a second revelation ("In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." - Hebrews 1:1-2), then we are merely receivers of that revelation and attempting to follow it as best we know how with God's help.

The reason I'm not a Mormon is that Joseph Smith's "revelation" was NOT a revelation from God. The revelation we believe in came from God's Son, not some sinful man. God attested that His Son was indeed the savior of the world and that all He said was true. Smith's revelation comes no where close to anything like Jesus. Mormonism is a man-made "revelation," the New Testament is a God-made revelation.

Let me add this to the discussion of Jews and Christianity. Do you think that a Jew would be more attracted to a Christianity that has totally misplaced and ignored the law and the Old Testament or would he be more attracted to a Christianity that sees itself as being grafted into a Jewish covenant (Romans 11:17-29)? I think the latter. Although that's not a reason to accept my view (the only reason should be Biblical), it does help Christianity provide a bridge to Jewishness.

At our church we take great delight in understanding and celebrating our Jewish heritage. At Easter time we usually celebrate the Passover and show the place of the Lord's Supper in the Passover ceremony. We preach from the Old Testament with authority and power, since it is the continuing revelation of God's moral will. In our worship we try to be Jewish in our expressions. As a result of this we have a number of completed Jews (i.e. Jews who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah) who are members of our church.

Q: If you care to, I could engage you in an ongoing dialogue about these issues. But you have already done more than I could have expected. And I am grateful to you for taking the time to reply to a stranger.

A: I've really enjoyed discussing things with you. I've appreciated your willingness to consider my "strange" views -- although I trust that you know that these views are not really strange, but were held by the Reformation greats like Knox, Calvin, and Luther. Even if you don't become convinced, I hope that you won't consider me a "deceiver" (like one recent email) just because I teach the continuing validity of the principle of tithing.

Here is a section that I just recently added to the page on "How to Apply the Old Testament to Today." It gives practical examples of how the law continues to provide guidance. For what it's worth.


Why is This Important?

I believe that the Bible doesn't just tell us how to be saved, but also how to live as saved people.

Paul said to Timothy that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." The "Scripture" that Paul refers to here is mostly the Old Testament (see verse 15), so the promise is that between the Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures (i.e. the Bible) a Christian can be completely equipped for every good work. The equipping of a godly man comes from both Testaments, not just one.

If we limit ourselves to the New Testament we run into a problem. There are many areas of life that the New Testament simply doesn't address. The Old Testament addresses these areas, but the New Testament is absolutely silent on certain issues.

Here are some examples of Old Testament teachings and commandments that are important in living. I am totally unaware of anything said about these subjects in the New Testament and yet every Christian needs guidance for practical living on these issues:

caring for the environment (Deuteronomy 20:19-20)
caring for animals (Deuteronomy 22:6-7)
what to do when you find a lost item (Deuteronomy 22:1-3)
what does God think of hygiene and sanitation (Deuteronomy 23:12-13)
may I marry a close relative (Leviticus 18:6-18)
how many children does God want me to have (Genesis 1:28; Psalm 127:3-5)
does man have dominion over the creation or does the creation reign over man (Genesis 1:28-29)
cross dressing (Deuteronomy 22:5)
having sex with animals (Leviticus 18:23)
caring about the safety of others (Deuteronomy 22:8)
abortion (Isaiah 44:24; Psalm 139:13-14)
premarital sex (Exodus 22:16-17; Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

I was speaking with a pastor about my concern that God will have to judge our nation because of our unrighteousness. He startled me by saying that he didn't think God would do that. He said that the New Testament says nothing about God judging Gentile nations for their sin. You know what? He is absolutely right! I can find numerous verses in the Old Testament (e.g. Deuteronomy 18:9-12) about God holding the nations accountable for their wickedness, but not one in the New Testament. The practical outworking of this was that this pastor didn't see any need to try to work against the tide of abortion, homosexuality, divorce, or greed in our nation. It wouldn't matter anyway, since God wouldn't judge us.

When we cut ourselves off from the Old Testament (i.e. when we don't allow it to speak with authority to us) then we miss out on fundamental teachings from God.

God bless,

Dennis Rupert